Shooting Remington's New R51 9x19mm Plus P Semi-Automatic Pistol - Gunblast.com




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Welcome to The Rock. the Remington R&D Network.
Welcome to The Rock. the Remington R&D Network.

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Hardcorediver44: I don't like it, Its a far cry from the original model 51 Remington put out  almost 100 years ago. I prefer old pistols over new ones with a few exceptions. I understand that gun companies want to stay in business, but putting out a product that is cheaply made is not the way to go.

Rick Wiggins: Jeff.  You're an honest man.  Could you recommend this pistol to a friend now, knowing what you do about it?

TheCircleMRanch: Why buy a gun that has so many problems. If you want a good weapon of this general design by a PPK. Good Luck, Be Safe

Calvin Ledford: Update - Remington released an update (7/25) that they are "replacing" all R51s.  Production of the new guns is "expected" to start sometime in October.  Note, this DOES NOT mean anyone will be getting their gun replaced in October (which will already be over 7 months from when Remington started getting the malfunctioning guns back on RMA) - rather it means that they might be started producing the parts required for the production of the new guns on or by 10/31.  There is NO ETA on when owners might actually get a replace gun back.  Oh, and I should mention that the "new" R51s will be produced in a brand new plant, in a different state, presumably staffed with brand new employees who've not even worked in the firearms industry.

Here is my take on the "update"...

First and foremost, let me speak to Remington’s claim “we determined the pistols were safe. . .” – I find this statement to be an utter falsehood. The R51 was and has only been marketed as a self-defense oriented, designed for concealed carry, combat handgun. Any firearm intended for this role, which is anything less than scrupulously reliable, is for certain dangerous in that it cannot be trusted to function if absolutely required to do so in a life or death situation. The R51 has shown a grievous LACK of reliability related to not one, not two, but SEVERAL well documented issues. These issues include (but are not limited to): an almost ubiquitous trait of not going fully into battery when being loaded, a propensity for repetitively exhibiting failures to function (mainly related to failure to extract), magazines that regularly fall out of the gun while shooting, and (most seriously) a documented (in multiple guns) ability to fire out of battery (a dangerous condition taken alone) which leads to the massively deformed case locking up the gun.

The bracketed inserts below are my comments and opinion.

“Earlier this year, we launched the innovative R51 subcompact pistol to critical acclaim. [But that acclaim was NOT based on a functional review of the gun- which was conspicuously NOT present at the 2014 Shot Show Range Day] [Oh, and "sub-compact" is a reeeaaal stretch...]

During testing, numerous experts found the pistol to function flawlessly. [So called “experts” who by in large shot the guns at Remington paid for corporate junkets where said “experts” were wined and dined, and treated to days of free shooting by Remington? Experts who later reported that the guns HAD malfunctioned at the Gunsite launch – but attempted to explain away the malfunctions as caused by wind and dust at the range?]

In fact, they found it to have lower felt recoil, lower muzzle rise and better accuracy and concealability than other products in its class. [What obnoxious marketing crap given that they have had some people guns back on RMA for over 120 days now and nothing of any significance to these individuals has been stated at this point in the so called “update”!]

However, after initial commercial sales, our loyal customers notified us that some R51 pistols had performance issues. [“Some R51 pistols?! SOME? Really?!! They are going to use “news speak” to paint an image that only “some” guns had issues?]

We immediately ceased production to re-test the product. While we determined the pistols were safe [As an owner of 2 of these guns I whole hearted disagree that these guns are “safe” at all], certain units did not meet Remington’s performance criteria. [And how, pray tell, did these “some” guns make it out the door?  And given that they did, we're now just supposed to believe that future guns will be solid?  Seriously?]

The performance problems resulted from complications during our transition from prototype to mass production. These problems have been identified and solutions are being implemented, with an expected production restart in October. [With an “expected” restart of production? Does anyone really believe this? What exactly does “expected restart of production” mean anyhow? That on October 31st they might start making the parts again that ultimately are required to be assembled into functional pistols to return to owners? How long does it take from the “expected restart” to when fully functional guns are shipping to owners? Does anyone seriously think that they will be getting their gun back before mid-December at best?]

Anyone who purchased an R51 may return it and receive a new R51 pistol, along with two additional magazines and a custom Pelican case, by calling Remington at (800) 243-9700. [My opinion on what this means – “we’re recalling this turd, but don’t want to call it that – so instead we’re “replacing” any R51s that have already been purchased.”]

The new R51 will be of the same exceptional quality as our test pistols, which performed flawlessly. [We’re supposed to take this company’s word that they ever produced a quality product in the first place? Why, because the “experts” they are so cozy with reported only SOME issues with “pre-production guns?” Because of the “critical acclaim” that was based on NOT shooting the R51? What about durability by the way? Anyone going to mention the fact that the current guns have been showing a propensity to shred themselves severely in fewer than 100 rounds? That upon cleaning your gun after burning a box of ammo at the range, metal chips fall out of it?]

We appreciate your patience and support.” [Patience? I purchased 2 R51s in mid-March - by the time I expect I will actually receive replacements in mid-December 9 MONTHS WITHOUT A FUNCTIONING GUN WILL HAVE PASSED. And my compensation is to be a plastic case in lieu of the cardboard box originally provided with the gun?]

I’ve learned to be very careful about saying “never” about anything in life. However, I will NEVER be purchasing another Remington product again. I don’t care if they truly do get the bugs worked out of the R51. [Something I seriously doubt]

I also want to get his on record now. In the end, even if these guns can be debugged enough to function on some level that could reasonably be called "reliable" I believe the guns will STILL face a durability issue that will ultimately destroy them the longer they are shot. My honest belief (based on my guns and the wear they show from just a few hundred shots) is that these guns will have a service life of 1500 hundred rounds.


Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2014/07/25/r ... z38m5XFBcJ 

Calvin Ledford: This is ridiculous!  The September issue of Guns has a cover story on the R51!  The guns seem to have quietly been pulled from the market (try to find one on gun broker), it has been more than 100 days since the first guns started going back and no fix or even update from Remington. At this point the issues with the R51 are well known.  I find it completely irresponsible for gun mags to continue to provide positive reviews based on "eval guns" when the production version has so many issues.


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/05/foghorn/shooting-illustrated-remingtons-r51-erosion-journalistic-integrity/

Scott Smith: That was almost a complete lie from the remington guy, these are terrible to shoot, hard on the web of your hand, and are fairly unreliable. Add to that they are stupid difficult to re-assemble properly, and you have a very expensive mistake. And yes, I have shot them, no I don't hate remington, but this gun is pretty bad. There are things they could do to fix it, but if they didn't during testing I doubt they would now with it being so new.

Calvin Ledford: A comment posted yesterday (6/19/2014) on the Remington Owners R51 forum by user "maccountrypilot"  "I sent my R51 back 3 months ago and still nothing. I managed to talk to the Senior V.P and General Manager of Remington handguns. Based on that conversation I have asked for a refund. It is my opinion that Remington is no where close to fixing the issues with this pistol. It is time for me to cut my losses and move on. I wish the best of luck to the rest of you ... but as for me I am totally done with Remington."

Calvin Ledford: Hard to believe another week has come and gone and still nothing from Remington - a fix or even an update.  Rumor had it that there would be resolution sometime in June.  Being that it is already the 19th, if they announced something today, I think it would be a stretch to think that all people with RMA guns would for certain have theirs back by the end of the month when considering business days, shipping time etc.  Given other rumors as to plants being closed and manufacturing relocated to AL, I can see this stretching out even longer.  More concerning, I have extremely low confidence that when considering a large scale manufacturing move, new equipment, new staff, new plant etc. that this is even truly going even going to get resolved this go around.  Further, most of the rumors about fixes seem to have related to replacing slides, redesigned breach blocks and internal tweaks, I have yet to hear about barrels being replaced to address chamber issues.

Calvin Ledford:  
Hey Jeff,

How about bringing some of your influence in bear on this issue?  Given that YOUR reviews were trusted by many a duped R51 owner who purchased this albatross?  These guns are systemically (across a whole spectrum of serial numbers) showing very serious (and very common, very consistent, very well publicized) safety, reliability, and manufacturing issues (including non-SAAMI spec chambers) that cannot be ignored and are certainly inexcusable under any circumstance.  There are numerous reports of owners who literally only had possession of their guns for days and since  the guns have been back at Remington for greater than 9 weeks now - yet Remington will provide NO update to these owners as to when, or even if, they will ever even see their guns again. 
 
I (along with many others) used to place trust in you, especially as the main stream gun media sold out their credibility years ago.  I don't expect them to do the right thing here, but as a member of the alterative media, I expect you to do so.  You've put yourself out as someone who speaks the truth and isn't bought and paid for by the industry, so why not step up and weigh in on what (given the stature of Remington and all of the press after the shot show) is probably the biggest gun launch failure ever?  The fact that Remington provided your vacation out to Gunsite clearly puts your credibility into question on this firearm.  I'd think you'd want to do whatever you could to put this situation right, while distancing yourself from Remington for their putting you is such a compromised position.
 
So are you going to step up on behalf of ALL of the people who've been taken for a ride by Big Green and the MSM gun industry press, or were you actually part of the whole sordid affaire after all, despite your prostrations to the contrary?
 
There's an old Ben Franklin saying that you seem to be of the sort to appreciate - "Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."  I now believe none of what you say and am waiting to see what you do to determine if it might ever be possible to trust you again.  There are others who feel the same way.  Either Remington put you a really bad spot and has sullied your good name through making you an unwitting accomplice to this debacle, or you were knowledgeable party to this whole mess.  Actions speak louder than words, so why not tell us which it really was?

sTEVAL570: I purchased one brand new, had it for two weeks. Got rid of it. I should have lit my money on fire, probably would have been more entertaining. 

PurityofEssence: That guy on the left looks like Michael Ian Black.

Sam Man: I hate to be the oddball but man do I think that gun is ugly. Looks like it shoots well, but ugly.

IamBaal: I need your help and anybody can please answer my question. There is a new pistol that is supposedly coming out and I seen the video on YT I just do not remember the name. It is coming out in 9mm and the show comparisons between their pistol and other pistols showing the muzzle rise after shooting. It is coming out in polymer and steel this year I believe? It is supposed to be better than Glock specifically and I wanted to buy it.

They Live you Sleep: friend has one..  POS who was smoking crack when making this one

Parker chief: JUNK

lsw w: What are the overall dimensions and weight?

Derrick L.: I hope someone (Remington? 3rd party?) makes new grip panels with increased palm swell, akin to a Walther PPK/S. Then I could see me moving the the R-51.

kenneth NELSON: I'm thinking this might be a perfect gun for the wife. 

Ken ibn Anak: Hmm, how is the size of it compared to the original 380 variant?  Will a holster for the new one fit the older ones?  Is there any parts interchangeability?

shadowalker1776: Looking forward to picking one of these up for myself.
Rating:
Shooting Remington's New R51 9x19mm Plus P Semi-Automatic Pistol - Gunblast.com 5 out of 5

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Shooting Remington's New R51 9x19mm Plus P Semi-Automatic Pistol - Gunblast.com