Gunblastdotcom: Look for a full review on the new Remington R51 later, after I can get one
in here to Gunblast.com World Headquarters for a few days. Shooting several
of these at Gunsite was a lot of fun, but there was no means to do any
meaningful accuracy testing while i was there.
Rick Wiggins: Jeff. You're an honest man. Could you recommend this pistol to a friend
now, knowing what you do about it?
Calvin Ledford: This is ridiculous! The September issue of Guns has a cover story on the
R51! The guns seem to have quietly been pulled from the market (try to
find one on gun broker), it has been more than 100 days since the first
guns started going back and no fix or even update from Remington. At this
point the issues with the R51 are well known. I find it completely
irresponsible for gun mags to continue to provide positive reviews based on
"eval guns" when the production version has so many issues.
Calvin Ledford: A comment posted yesterday (6/19/2014) on the Remington Owners R51 forum by
user "maccountrypilot" "I sent my R51 back 3 months ago and still nothing.
I managed to talk to the Senior V.P and General Manager of Remington
handguns. Based on that conversation I have asked for a refund. It is my
opinion that Remington is no where close to fixing the issues with this
pistol. It is time for me to cut my losses and move on. I wish the best of
luck to the rest of you ... but as for me I am totally done with
IamBaal: I need your help and anybody can please answer my question. There is a new
pistol that is supposedly coming out and I seen the video on YT I just do
not remember the name. It is coming out in 9mm and the show comparisons
between their pistol and other pistols showing the muzzle rise after
shooting. It is coming out in polymer and steel this year I believe? It is
supposed to be better than Glock specifically and I wanted to buy it.
Sam Man: I hate to be the oddball but man do I think that gun is ugly. Looks like it
shoots well, but ugly.
Scott Smith: That was almost a complete lie from the remington guy, these are terrible
to shoot, hard on the web of your hand, and are fairly unreliable. Add to
that they are stupid difficult to re-assemble properly, and you have a very
expensive mistake. And yes, I have shot them, no I don't hate remington,
but this gun is pretty bad. There are things they could do to fix it, but
if they didn't during testing I doubt they would now with it being so new.
TheCircleMRanch: Why buy a gun that has so many problems. If you want a good weapon of this
general design by a PPK. Good Luck, Be Safe
rcbif101: Does the slide ride on aluminum or steel rails?
Calvin Ledford: Hard to believe another week has come and gone and still nothing from
Remington - a fix or even an update. Rumor had it that there would be
resolution sometime in June. Being that it is already the 19th, if they
announced something today, I think it would be a stretch to think that all
people with RMA guns would for certain have theirs back by the end of the
month when considering business days, shipping time etc. Given other
rumors as to plants being closed and manufacturing relocated to AL, I can
see this stretching out even longer. More concerning, I have extremely low
confidence that when considering a large scale manufacturing move, new
equipment, new staff, new plant etc. that this is even truly going even
going to get resolved this go around. Further, most of the rumors about
fixes seem to have related to replacing slides, redesigned breach blocks
and internal tweaks, I have yet to hear about barrels being replaced to
address chamber issues.
kenneth NELSON: I'm thinking this might be a perfect gun for the wife.
Calvin Ledford: Update - Remington released an update (7/25) that they are "replacing" all
R51s. Production of the new guns is "expected" to start sometime in
October. Note, this DOES NOT mean anyone will be getting their gun
replaced in October (which will already be over 7 months from
when Remington started getting the malfunctioning guns back on RMA) -
rather it means that they might be started producing the parts required for
the production of the new guns on or by 10/31. There is NO ETA on when
owners might actually get a replace gun back. Oh, and I should mention
that the "new" R51s will be produced in a brand new plant, in a different
state, presumably staffed with brand new employees who've not even worked
in the firearms industry.
Here is my take on the "update"...
First and foremost, let me speak to Remington’s claim “we determined the
pistols were safe. . .” – I find this statement to be an utter falsehood.
The R51 was and has only been marketed as a self-defense oriented, designed
for concealed carry, combat handgun. Any firearm intended for this role,
which is anything less than scrupulously reliable, is for certain
*dangerous* in that it cannot be trusted to function if absolutely required
to do so in a life or death situation. The R51 has shown a grievous LACK of
reliability related to not one, not two, but SEVERAL well documented
issues. These issues include (but are not limited to): an almost ubiquitous
trait of not going fully into battery when being loaded, a propensity for
repetitively exhibiting failures to function (mainly related to failure to
extract), magazines that regularly fall out of the gun while shooting, and
(most seriously) a documented (in multiple guns) ability to fire out of
battery (a dangerous condition taken alone) which leads to the massively
deformed case locking up the gun.
The bracketed inserts below are my comments and opinion.
“Earlier this year, we launched the innovative R51 subcompact pistol to
critical acclaim. [But that acclaim was NOT based on a functional review of
the gun- which was conspicuously NOT present at the 2014 Shot Show Range
Day] [Oh, and "sub-compact" is a reeeaaal stretch...]
During testing, numerous experts found the pistol to function flawlessly.
[So called “experts” who by in large shot the guns at Remington paid for
corporate junkets where said “experts” were wined and dined, and treated to
days of free shooting by Remington? Experts who later reported that the
guns HAD malfunctioned at the Gunsite launch – but attempted to explain
away the malfunctions as caused by wind and dust at the range?]
In fact, they found it to have lower felt recoil, lower muzzle rise and
better accuracy and concealability than other products in its class. [What
obnoxious marketing crap given that they have had some people guns back on
RMA for over 120 days now and nothing of any significance to these
individuals has been stated at this point in the so called “update”!]
However, after initial commercial sales, our loyal customers notified us
that some R51 pistols had performance issues. [“Some R51 pistols?! SOME?
Really?!! They are going to use “news speak” to paint an image that only
“some” guns had issues?]
We immediately ceased production to re-test the product. While we
determined the pistols were safe [As an owner of 2 of these guns I whole
hearted disagree that these guns are “safe” at all], certain units did not
meet Remington’s performance criteria. [And how, pray tell, did these
“some” guns make it out the door? And given that they did, we're now just
supposed to believe that future guns will be solid? Seriously?]
The performance problems resulted from complications during our transition
from prototype to mass production. These problems have been identified and
solutions are being implemented, with an expected production restart in
October. [With an “expected” restart of production? Does anyone really
believe this? What exactly does “expected restart of production” mean
anyhow? That on October 31st they might start making the parts again that
ultimately are required to be assembled into functional pistols to return
to owners? How long does it take from the “expected restart” to when fully
functional guns are shipping to owners? Does anyone seriously think that
they will be getting their gun back before mid-December at best?]
Anyone who purchased an R51 may return it and receive a new R51 pistol,
along with two additional magazines and a custom Pelican case, by calling
Remington at (800) 243-9700. [My opinion on what this means – “we’re
recalling this turd, but don’t want to call it that – so instead we’re
“replacing” any R51s that have already been purchased.”]
The new R51 will be of the same exceptional quality as our test pistols,
which performed flawlessly. [We’re supposed to take this company’s word
that they ever produced a quality product in the first place? Why, because
the “experts” they are so cozy with reported only SOME issues with
“pre-production guns?” Because of the “critical acclaim” that was based on
NOT shooting the R51? What about durability by the way? Anyone going to
mention the fact that the current guns have been showing a propensity to
shred themselves severely in fewer than 100 rounds? That upon cleaning your
gun after burning a box of ammo at the range, metal chips fall out of it?]
We appreciate your patience and support.” [Patience? I purchased 2 R51s in
mid-March - by the time I expect I will actually receive replacements in
mid-December *9 MONTHS WITHOUT A FUNCTIONING GUN WILL HAVE PASSED.* And my
compensation is to be a plastic case in lieu of the cardboard box
originally provided with the gun?]
I’ve learned to be very careful about saying “never” about anything in
life. However, I will NEVER be purchasing another Remington product again.
I don’t care if they truly do get the bugs worked out of the R51.
[Something I seriously doubt]
I also want to get his on record now. In the end, even if these guns can be
debugged enough to function on some level that could reasonably be called
"reliable" I believe the guns will STILL face a durability issue that will
ultimately destroy them the longer they are shot. My honest belief (based
on my guns and the wear they show from just a few hundred shots) is that
these guns will have a service life of 1500 hundred rounds.
Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2014/07/25/r ... z38m5XFBcJ
Fireguzzi Forge: Cant wait for the full review. I am really interested in this gun.
PurityofEssence: That guy on the left looks like Michael Ian Black.
sTEVAL570: I purchased one brand new, had it for two weeks. Got rid of it. I should
have lit my money on fire, probably would have been more entertaining.
NewJerseyMilitia: Is it accurate and up to what distance?
E.W.E. Hughes Jr: I like it. Remington seems to be differentiating themselves from some of
the other firearms manufacturers with this pistol. I like the full-length
grip and the size. We have plenty of micro-9mm pistols on the market; it's
nice that single-stack 9mm for those that may want to take a path less
Ken Rhodes: Where is it made?
oneeyedpatriot: That is a fine looking gun! Thanks for yet another fine review!
SGT SAM: Way cool gun. Great look!
WaltD1911: Looks like a cool gun Jeff and I'll wait for your review. Great channel and
enjoy your vids! Happy New Year to all!
Ryan Peck: No price set yet?
jlen82: Jeff size wise is this Similar to an LC9?
Dave Marotto: It's just my opinion. Calm down.
They Live you Sleep: friend has one.. POS who was smoking crack when making this one
Parker chief: JUNK
lsw w: What are the overall dimensions and weight?
Derrick Lepin: I hope someone (Remington? 3rd party?) makes new grip panels with increased
palm swell, akin to a Walther PPK/S. Then I could see me moving the the
Calvin Ledford: Hey Jeff,
How about bringing some of your influence in bear on this issue? Given
that YOUR reviews were trusted by many a duped R51 owner who purchased this
albatross? These guns are systemically (across a whole spectrum of serial
numbers) showing very serious (and very common, very consistent, very well
publicized) safety, reliability, and manufacturing issues (including
non-SAAMI spec chambers) that cannot be ignored and are certainly
inexcusable under any circumstance. There are numerous reports of owners
who literally only had possession of their guns for days and since the
guns have been back at Remington for greater than 9 weeks now - yet
Remington will provide NO update to these owners as to when, or even if,
they will ever even see their guns again.
I (along with many others) used to place trust in you, especially as the
main stream gun media sold out their credibility years ago. I don't expect
them to do the right thing here, but as a member of the alterative media, I
expect you to do so. You've put yourself out as someone who speaks the
truth and isn't bought and paid for by the industry, so why not step up and
weigh in on what (given the stature of Remington and all of the press after
the shot show) is probably the biggest gun launch failure ever? The fact
that Remington provided your vacation out to Gunsite clearly puts your
credibility into question on this firearm. I'd think you'd want to do
whatever you could to put this situation right, while distancing yourself
from Remington for their putting you is such a compromised position.
So are you going to step up on behalf of ALL of the people who've been
taken for a ride by Big Green and the MSM gun industry press, or were you
actually part of the whole sordid affaire after all, despite your
prostrations to the contrary?
There's an old Ben Franklin saying that you seem to be of the sort to
appreciate - "Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you
see." I now believe none of what you say and am waiting to see what you do
to determine if it might ever be possible to trust you again. There are
others who feel the same way. Either Remington put you a really bad spot
and has sullied your good name through making you an unwitting accomplice
to this debacle, or you were knowledgeable party to this whole mess.
Actions speak louder than words, so why not tell us which it really was?
Ken ibn Anak: Hmm, how is the size of it compared to the original 380 variant? Will a
holster for the new one fit the older ones? Is there any parts
shadowalker1776: Looking forward to picking one of these up for myself.
Kevin Springer: Ugly
loytaylor75: i just watched a 3min 50sec add for remington!
TrinityGadgetry: I didn't see an R51 being shot.
And why is Gunsites' trademark a Reichsadler?
Dee Piper: I like it!
Towald Graves: Nice.....
higuything21: Johny Knoxville?
surf@work: you weren't bullcrapting, that muzzle flip looks nice..
Aglassdarkly116: I've been noticing the screws on the grip, been wondering if the grips are
able to be swapped out with some g10 or hogues to personalize it. Haven't
seen anything else on that. Seems crimson trace is doing a laser guard for
it rather than grips, but I prefer that system on a small carry gun anyway.
Excellent accompaniment on the video. Can't help but think of "little
mountain church house."
Christopher Meyerhofer: You said to go to www.crimsontrace.com to find the laser grips. I couldn't
find it. They don't have it under their "New to 2014" section.
travis bickle: I like the concept , but I really wish it were DA/SA with an exposed
hammer- for the price they are going for now (far north of the 389$ retail)
I can't justify not buying a glock or beretta or? instead of this- I've
heard from a few reviewers that I trust that the grip safety is pretty
stiff too- kinda a disappointment
Charles Messer: I like it, I would love it without the grip safety
J Scott: I am quite sure if it feels as good as it looks and lives up the hype on
its perceived dependability, I will be buying one also. Thank you for the
video, it was easy on the eyes (even with you in it) and ears.
CC D: Is the r51 a single action with only a grip safety? If it's reliable, I
want one. Please let us know about the safety features. I'm a little
concerned about a roostered single action pistol in a soft sided IWB holster.
Alan Taylor: I appreciate all the close-ups at the end. Going to take a look at this.
Roy Diedesch: Did you look at the breach action on this? "Hesitation Locked" - "When the
cartridge is fired, the bolt and slide move together a short distance
rearward powered by the energy of the cartridge as in a standard blowback
system. When the breech block contacts the locking shoulder, it stops,
locking the breech in place. The slide continues rearward with the momentum
it acquired in the initial phase. This allows chamber pressure to drop to
safe levels while the breech is locked and the cartridge slightly
extracted. Once the bullet leaves the barrel and pressure drops, the
continuing motion of the slide lifts the breech block from its locking
recess through a cam arrangement, continuing the firing cycle." If you look
at the pictures, they have a 3-4mm spacer that catches on the returning
barrel assembly so the safety of your face relies on a miniscule metal tab.
Sounds like an explosion waiting to happen. Nice try though, Remington.
Robert Cave: Additional calibers to follow? I hope they make a R53 based on the Model
53. But WW I ended and so did the chance of Remington getting a contract
to produce the Model 53.
Larry Ransom: Who is performing the background music (Battle Cry of Freedom). I sure
hopes it's the Southern Version of that song!
j;alksdjf;asf: WOW, BILL HADER REVIEWS GUNS?
Kyle TheGunNut: Good looking gun Jeff