Varnish And Epoxy~ A Professional Wood Finish For Teak Part1

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vikingwhite: I picked up the West Marine system you're using to finish all the outside and inside trim on a small wooden weekender... the gentleman there said this was easier than varnishing and didn't mention need for it nor sell me any varnish. Will it turn horribly yellow if I don't do the varnish especially on the outside trim in the sun?

thomasuras: What do you think of the German product coelan ?

Patrick van Wijland: Hiya Andy, If I'll use this method will this also strenghten the wood. Thanks and keep up the good work with your video's Cheers, Patrick

MyStuff: Hello, Trying this method on swim platform. First time using epoxy. Blew it first time;too cold, had to sand it off. Second attempt came out nice. Put two coats on bottom side. Problem with drips around edges when I flipped it, will have to sand them off. When I coat the top side can I tape the bottom edges to catch the drips? Thanks

rootsofone: Much appreciated!

BoatworksToday: Unfortunately I do not have a drum sander and I've never used one (although my shoulders wish that I did sometimes). So not much help there.. I typically run the wood through my planer, a light sanding with some 180 - 220 and it's ready for finishing :-)

BoatworksToday: Yes on the sanding between every coat (320 - 400 grit) and depending on the size of the area you're finishing a little thinner (10% or so) will give you a bit more working time before you lose the wet edge for blending. With poly, apply thin coats as it can have a tendency to run. Foam brushes work well with this...

BoatworksToday: @valeriemd2b Yes.. As far as adhesion this will work with all woods (some like teak that are oily require a little extra prep as outlined in the video). However I would test a scrap piece to make sure it gives the color and tone you're looking for when finished.

BoatworksToday: @Darknights7 I'd still use acetone, without a clean dry surface the epoxy won't get a good bond. The 205 hardener will work just fine, but will darken the maple a bit. Are you making the boards or fixing them up?

salbal777: If I'm using Polyurethane varnish do I need to sand between coats? do I need to add thinner or spirit to Polyurethane varnish?

BoatworksToday: Very slippery unless something is sprinkled in for texture or some strips of grip tape are applied.. the tape might actually look nice, 3M makes a clear 1" grip tape..

cruizin31: Bedding compound doesn't provide a vapor barrier. A piece of wood must be completely encapsulated in resin to prevent the ingress of water in the form of vapor. Moreover, fastener holes must be sealed with epoxy as well. If the fasteners allow in any moisture, I guarantee coating failure. This is all covered on the west systems website, by the way. What about an exterior door with a panel designed to float in the frame? Epoxy over that? Sorry, but it's a short term fix with long term issues.

cruizin31: The trouble with this method is that it doesn't address wood movement. Particularly with exterior brightwork, unless the piece is completely encapsulated in resin, the wood will move and the coating will fail. When it does, you have a real mess on your hands. If you are using an epoxy underlayment on exterior brightwork that is not sealed on the backside and water vapor can get in around the fasteners, you are in for a rude awakening a year down the road. I'm no purist, just been there.

BoatworksToday: Labor rate depends on a few things. Your area, level of experience, operating costs (insurance) and reputation. It's a fairly difficult thing to just jump into without references. But a starting point would be to contact a few of the local marinas and ask what their labor rate is for brightwork finishers and check to see what their liability requirements are for outside contractors to work in their yards. :-)

BoatworksToday: Yup. Many kayak and paddle board manufacturers will do this to provide a layer of protection. You can sand and repair scratches in FG; you're pretty much hosed if you try to do this directly on CF

dreammaker: thanx for tutorial mate, you're awesome.. I just wonder one thing. Do 105 resin and 207 hardener never get yellow? How about pouring onto a colorful image? Will it look crystal clear?

BoatworksToday: I'm very familiar with West System and have spoken with them on numerous occasions. Sorry, but couldn't disagree with you more. Bedding compounds are a sealant (key word, SEAL). Moisture does not permeate this material, otherwise it would not make a very good choice for water proofing now would it? :-) Properly refinishing a floating paneled door does NOT entail locking the panel in with epoxy or finish. You lost me there.. Dozens of boats, hundreds of parts over 15 years. Not 1 failure ;-)

theoutmoreproject: love y vids, got the stuff t build a pontoon/cat, had t make it modular as i have no space.Never seen 1 on t canals of england so shld b a 1 off. I dont expect the parts t last that long so have designed it t have removable parts.So far all the stuff cost £700, 2months of bargain hunting. Was going t use poly but after looking in2 it decided 2use epoxy for the pontoons and base with poly upstairs. What bottom paint should i use over the epoxy? realy worried about failure and water ingres.cheers

BoatworksToday: Epoxy as a base would offer good protection, but may be a little pricey. Also, using a high gloss finish for the topcoat (varnish) may not be the best choice. Varnish is relatively soft for 'working surfaces' like table tops, chairs, etc. It will scratch easily and being a high gloss EVERY imperfection will stand out like a sore thumb. Exterior finishes are tricky trying to find a balance between protection and appearance. I'd look at Sikkens stains or decking products w/ UV protection :-)

Guillaume Breton: does epoxy "self levels" or do you see much brush strikes after its cured ? also, i tried to sand epoxy (filled some nots) and it was impossible, the heat was "melting" the epoxy and it remained tacky all the time. I probably didnt mix it well enough or didnt put enough hardener in it ? tyvm, nice video !

BoatworksToday: Well, I guess I have nothing else to say; sounds like you know all there is to know about refinishing brightwork. I do have to ask though, if my videos are so poor and lacking vital info then why does West System post my vids on their FaceBook page and refer their customers to my site for proper instruction? Hmm, I have to wonder if all the times you "found out the hard way" if maybe you were just doing it wrong? Guess I'll never know.. Please feel free to show me how it's done.

BoatworksToday: @Darknights7 The epoxy shouldn't effect the glue used for laminating the boards, and once cured the epoxy needs to be sanded before painting. Although, I don't know how much just coating the sides of a pre-laminated board will actually strengthen things? Won't hurt, but not sure how much it will actually help... Only thing to do is experiment and see what happens...

BoatworksToday: Usually compressed air to blow the dry dust off then tack rag, or solvent wipe with the varnish thinner (mineral spirits works as well) and tack rag.. In a pinch, clean water will work as well...

Darknights7: @boatworkstoday Making :) Ohh darken will be nice too i dont mind. So the acetone wont affect the glue right? and.. can i paint ontop of epoxy once dried?

Darknights7: @boatworkstoday Well thank you for informing me at least before i went ahead and went nuts.. joking. nah i was planning to apply to the sides of my skateboards/longboards so that they dont seperate the layers due to harsh riding. (Since the veneers are 8+ layers laminated together) and this is for maple, so i dont think i need acetone? Would it really matter if i didnt care about the maple's colour showing on the sides and i could just use my 205 hardener? The hardeners are really expensive..

BoatworksToday: @Darknights7 You would just have to buy the 207 hardener; the 205 does not cure clear. The 105 resin is what you need. As well, you'll need some acetone, sandpaper, and west system rollers and / or chip brushes to apply the epoxy..

ksjdhg: Great job explaining this, and you do great work. Do you use a drum sander for wood prep, and if so which ones do you like? Cheers

theoutmoreproject: i know people put carbon fiber over fg but can you put fg over cf.cheers

ksjdhg: Cool - have you tried epoxy over stain? I've always been afraid to try it, for fear of lack of adhesion or reaction between the two in the case of oil stain.

BoatworksToday: If done correctly the brightwork IS completely sealed (top and sides with epoxy and varnish and the bottom sealed with bedding compound). The small amount that the wood does expand and contract, the epoxy and topcoats move with it. Exterior brightwork typically does not have joinery with opposing grain patterns. If it does it is separated by a caulk seam to allow movement. As long as the grains run directionally as with lap joints, scarf joints, etc everything moves together w/ no issues

BoatworksToday: @ihsan2011 Hey, thanks! If the 'image' is going to be exposed to sunlight, then it needs to have some other type of coating on top of the epoxy (with UV absorbers) to prevent dis-colorization (yellowing). If it is something that is going to be kept indoors (out of sunlight) then just using the epoxy itself will give a clear, non-yellowing appearance. The background colors should come through very clear with little / no change over time :-)

Robert Stafford: Love the video. Very instructive. Can I use Cetol Marine finish over the epoxy for similar results to your's?

salbal777: Thank you for advice it works fine.

Darknights7: Hmmm ive finally found out that i can epoxy resin my longboards... Question, isnt there bubbles popping up when mixing the two together? And why 2 coats of epoxy resin? thanks.

BoatworksToday: @Darknights7 I apply 2 coats for depth and durability. 1 coat gives a nice finish, but two make it look like a mirror. A topcoat w/ UV blockers is needed for protection from the sun (varnish, etc); I wouldn't leave it bare. As long as the surface isn't hot when applying the epoxy, no bubbles. It flows out beautifully! Roll and tip with a brush, or just brush it on like I did in the video. 1 coat at a time, and wait until it's tacked over before applying another. Use ONLY clear epoxy WS207

BoatworksToday: @Darknights7 Good luck! Happy to help!

BoatworksToday: The first coat will look a little rough, but the 2nd coat of epoxy will flow out like a sheet of glass :-) If it's not curing there are likely 1 of 2 things going on. Mixing ratio: the West System 207 hardener is mixed with the resin 3:1 (3 parts resin to 1 part 207. Also temperature. I believe the minimum temp for this hardener is around 65F.. Hope this helps!

azoresmarine: Great job thank you. You say do not use acetone after final wipe down of the epoxy, so how do you clean the surface after sanding each varnish coat. Thanks

netteski P.: does it need to use a sanding sealer before applying the varnish?

dreammaker: @boatworkstoday Thank you very much. That 's what I wanted to know.

legend343: Just found your channel... it's great thanks..

BoatworksToday: Thanks for the kind words! If you're using epoxy and glass on the pontoons the bottom paint won't really add anymore water-proofing protection. The main purpose of bottom paint is to help prevent things from growing and sticking to the hull. The level of fouling in the water you'll be using the boat will determine the best kind of paint to use. A good starting point would be to look around the marina's to see what others are using and see how well it works. Hope this helps!

Guitarman3348: would you sugest multible coats at one time to speed things up or not and why?

valeriemd2b: @boatworkstoday Cool. Thanks I'll go ahead and try that. Keep up the good work :)

Patricia Johnson: How does one charge for services like this? I'd like to give it a whirl here in Virginia...It's absolutely stunning ;D

K Rayne: Have you tried this on Ipe?

kelly grogan: Great Job!! I will use this method on my boat. My question is the teak that is outside the boat is weathered and faded. Inside the cabin still has a nice deep color to it. I am striving to have it all match. Should I do a teak stain on the outside pieces prior to this process? There has been some teak "restorer" product applied inside, any special prep work other than a good 220 sanding?? Thanks again!

BoatworksToday: Probably not a good idea. As the epoxy cures it 'gasses off' somewhat, if another wet coat of epoxy is applied before the first has started to tack up it will cause bubbles in the finish.. Been there and tried it :-) Not fun...

theoutmoreproject: cheers, I got 15m of 800gsm WR for practically nothing, my plan was to just use that with MAS Low Viscocity Epoxy and 30 g/m suface tissue matting, over 9mm ply, thought because the pontoons are only 240cm*40*40 this would be ok for a year or two,will make them so i can unbolt if my handywork turns out to be not so handy. I had the idea because nothing on the canals is desiged with lightness and space in mind,its all coal shifters and margarine tubs.
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