How To Diagnose Toyota Timing Chain Rattle Or Knock Troubleshoot 22R 22RE 22RET




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Hurricane Floyd: $40 in 2014 with parts from eBay counting a revised front oil seal, use a 7mm thick seal instead of a sleeve or new pulley, BECK/ARNLEY 052-2144, it lets the new seal lip run 4mm farther back than the worn groove. BTW, the chains can go 200k without a problem, it is random. The only bad one I ever had made a much worse sound than loose valves, drove 10,000 miles and still managed to save the timing cover when I did change it.

Heather Stacy: Um that was very very educating i wish i seen this 3 days ago. Well at least now i know.... bringing my tools next time lol

Greg Simms: thank very helpful

rmnjp07: thanks man. I have a 93 pickup with the same problem but could never figure out the problem. I always thought it was the rocker arms tapping. didn't know about the timing chain guide was made of plastic. lol n tnx for that website. now I can purchase one of thows metal ones.

shrewgy: Great job.

Edris Talbert: Excellent bought a 1994 last night and I was wondering what that clicking noise was and now I know. 

ak3supra: Thank you for the tutorial, Helped me save time and a terrible experience at a shop. Kudos to you. Your VIdeo helped with my built not bought 91 Supra 7 M-GTE. After a Drift session DS Timing belt guide broke, I thought it was a rocker arm lifter or v-stem. Could in the future when able to make a turbo video? It would bring in a legion of new viewers. Oh yeah why do some mechanics act like customer service is not in the book? Thanks once more AK3SUPRA

playstation2bigs: that's why i love timing belt on toyota

davisj993: OK, got the timing set right without having to pull the cover. Runs a little cooler but still gets hot. How can I get the air out. Just replaced thermostat and all the heater hose. Thanx !

WheeliePete: Whoops, should read "let coolant into the oil"...

thenomadrhodes: @WheeliePete Wow, all of those sound really pricey to fix.. Thank you WheeliePete, I'll jump on that this weekend.

thenomadrhodes: @WheeliePete Thanks for the info Pete and yes, its the coming from the timing guild.Looks like I have some work ahead of me :(

WheeliePete: I should also add, going back to the first reply, that having a timing cover that has a higher deck height than the block may cause your head gasket to fail prematurely because the head isn't cranking down flat if the timing cover is taller than the surface of the block. Again, if you are having an engine block surfaced make sure the timing cover is bolted to it so the block and timing cover are EXACTLY the same height.

Landybandy1: Ha ha "it can be done with the vehicle in the truck". This cracked me up when I heard him say this.

WheeliePete: Make sure you take the hidden bolt out from under the distributor drive gear (it's covered by an oil puddle and bolts the top edge of the timing cover to the head. From there you just have to be sure not to fawk up the head gasket when you remove the timing cover. The timing cover has some dowels in it too so you can't force it down, you have to pull it straight off and then getting it back on is a trick. Don't try to be a hero, just drop the oil pan, you probably need to clean it out anyway.

WheeliePete: s/b *Lower the cam gear out of the chain" (Don't drop the chain down into the timing cover...)

WheeliePete: I don't have a more detailed video...yet. I'm in the process of buying a 1,750 square foot shop right now that will allow me to shoot some better videos in the near future. If you have a 1981 truck with the original 1981 engine you don't have anything to worry about because you should have a double row timing chain and metal guides from the factory. Those systems are nearly bullet-proof. They changed to the single row chain and plastic in 83~ish to increase dealer maintenance revenue (my theory)

davisj993: I have changed out the gaskets on my timing cover and checked the double chain for stretch and it was good. I have got it back together and it s running hot and the timing is advanced I do believe by 20 degree s. Is there a way to fix the timing without pulling the cover off. Just by accessing the valve cover. Just a hope full question.

WheeliePete: When you take off the timing cover, you need to check and make sure the chain didn't rub a hole through that driver's side of the timing cover. There is a water jacket right in that spot and if the guide has completely broken off and the chain is slapping the side of the timing cover it can wear a hole through the cover and let oil into the coolant. If your billowing clouds of white smoke though, that mean's coolant is getting into the combustion chamber and you've got a blown head gasket.

davisj993: I was reviewing the video you had on timing chain. You commented that the timing chain could be replaced without pulling the head off of the engine. I didn't know if it would matter which way I would do the work. I' m a skilled mechanic, just not that familiar with yotas. More of the Samurai before, but making adjustments to the Yota area. I guess I get to the point of getting you to post that video again. Thanks

Dustin Stopo: Wheelie, you rock dude. Thanks so much for the info big help! I check with you before my Hayes

Andrew Lujan: what exactly would you replace? chain guides? oil pump and water pump? i think my engine has been rebuilt so ill use the old timing cover and buy new hardware.

WheeliePete: Both the crankshaft gear and the cam gear have marks on them that correspond colored links on the timing chain. You put the single bright link on the corresponding mark on the crankshaft gear and put the mark on the camshaft gear between the two bright links of the chain. It can be done if there are not marked links on the chain, but it requires more though to get it right.

WheeliePete: Yeah, that's the reason you'll hear seller's saying "It just needs a valve adjustment"...B.S. the timing guide is probably broken. Always pull the valve cover and shine a flashlight in there.

jgr144: :( my 83 celica makes that sound at around 2000 rpm

Dude13450: My friend gave me his 84 Toyota pickup. I haven't looked in ther, because there hasn't been any rattling yet. If/when the rattling starts because of a broken plastic chain guide, could I use the metal ones from an older Toyota with a 22R? Or would I have to buy the aftermarket set?

jgr144: do u have to remove the oil pan cause in the celica it looks like u have to lift the engine just to get it off

guy reefer: i replaced my own timing chain and sprokets etc with the engine in the vehicle... it's not that hard at all.. those 22r's are so easy to work on.... i did remove the head though,,,, i recomend removing the head just so all the gaskets and sealant set in nicely.... if you remove the head make sure you REsurface it,,, other wise the head gasket will leak. all alluminum heads warp up as you unbolt them from the block

Joel Thomas: The job was a big success. Thanks for being so specific and detailed, and for showing me to engnbldr.com, I got to go inside the place personally which was a very rewarding and fun experience. The engine runs way better, and gone is that tinfoil in the fanblades sound... it can vary from 22r to 22r, I found a video of someone's that sounded just like mine on here. When I saw your video, I knew I had to open the cover, once I did, i knew I had to get the kit and use it.

WheeliePete: You should be able to horse it onto the cam, it may take two people. CAREFULLY pry the cam gear and chain up onto the cam. You may need to roll the crank a little in either direction to get some wiggle room in the chain. I've had some tight ones before, an extra set of hands will probably help. You can also roll the cam around with a wrench on the flats of the camshaft trying to help line things up.

WheeliePete: You hear that come out of a seller's mouth you might as well walk away because they probably have something to hide. You buy one of these with bad/broken guides you just bought an expensive grenade with a loose pin.

Aaron Martin: cool video man i just got a toyota.

WheeliePete: It's not that big a deal really, unless you are planning to keep the rig forever. I think the service limit on a plastic guide is actually 60,000, but that's a lot of miles. Most of them break around 80,000-110,000 and that IS a lot of miles...

WheeliePete: Pop that cover off and get a flashlight. I bet the driver's side guide is gone... Get in there bofore it chews though the timing cover and lets coolant down into the pan.

meng yang: and i also noticed that my oil pressure's been low lately ... could it be my oil pump also?

teamonster420: same exact problems with the ka24e from nissan. i find more an more simularities between these two motors every single day.

davisj993: Kan any of the parts off the 21ru be used on the 22r. Intake dist.

tennwhitetrash: Thanks man!

jgr144: i just did it without taking the head off it can be don but watch out for the head gasket that is inline with the timing cover that caused me to tear mines down twice

WheeliePete: As long as it's not worn through I would run the original. One consderation about replacing the timing cover is that if you have surfaced the engine block before, a new timing cover may be taller than the engine block. This creates a big problem in that the head gasket will not seal properly if the timing cover is taller than the block. When you have a block surfaced you should have the timing cover bolted to it so they are match ground.

mummdude2000: It sounds to me like youve had some very bad luck there WheeliePete. Saying that every 22re youve purchased with OVER 100k has had this issue. My experiences are quite the opposite. Yes there is an increased chance of this problem happening after 100k....or even 150k. Its varies too much engine to engine even. My 90' has 208k on it now and never had this problem and has never been apart. The beauty of regular maintenance goes a long way!!

WheeliePete: With the engine cold, put the heater control to the hot side, take the radiator cap off, squeeze the lower radiator hose a few time to see if the system burps. start the engine and let it warm up with the radiator cap off. That coolant is flowing and once the engine is warm verify that you are getting heat through the vents. If it persists in being hot, try putting a backflush "T" into one of the heater core hoses at the high point and then fill coolant until it comes out the top of the "T"

eduardoig17: I have a 2000 celica gts that is making a knocking sound the strange thing is that it only makes it after the engine is hot, at idle and when I rev the engine up a little to about 1500 or a little less it goes away. Could that be the guide as well? Or what do you think it may be? Please let me know

OregonCoastGhost: Thank you, sir. You know, I've scoured the forums and not heard that answer given before. I like it. I'm going to look into this. I'm new to Toyota, but it's a sweet little truck and I want to do it justice. The rattling I'm hearing is not cyclical. It it ever-present, just louder at times, depending on the RPM's/vibration of the rig. If I hit that sweet spot before upshifting, while at high RPM's, it can drown out the radio and my thought process. Definitely an ugly metallic sound...

WheeliePete: Another one of those hard-to-diagnose on the web ones... Sounds related to oil pressure are always a bit sketchy. Could be a seal dragging (did you grease the seal lips on the front main before you put it on? Could be timing chain related as the chain tensioner works off of oil pressure. Tough to tell without being able to listen to it. Oh, wait, might be the power steering pump. I've had the PS pumps make some weird noises when they get old, or when they aren't bled properly...

WheeliePete: head problems you'll need to address the issues and probably have the head machined. (One of the most common issues is corrosion in the water jacket passages in the head near cylinder bore. But if you've got the head off to replace the timing you can get away without having it surfaced if you're careful when you remove / replace it. (When I say stepped removal I mean unscrewing the head bolts in the correct pattern 1/2 turn at a time.)

davisj993: No problems with timing components, but leaking oil bad on the driver side right above the coolant bypass block off plate. Between the timing cover and the engine block. Its just due for some new gaskets. I was weighing pros and coins of whether to leave the head on or pull it and replace head gasket. Just wanted to ask some one with more Yota engine experience than me. Thanks

lego720: Great video! Keep up the good work

Franker s: keep up the good work.i have a 91 yota 4runner v6 5spd just got it a few months back it was a real nice little truck till the 4x4 quit on me.i haven't had a chance yet to look at it yet n figure it out but they are some tough trucks

WheeliePete: There's enough room to loosen the oil pan to drop it down a bit I think. It's been a long time since I worked on the early Celica, but I think there is enough room ro R&R the oil pan without having to remove the sub-frame, either that or you can loosen the motor mounts and use a floor jack to lift up the engine from the lip of the transmission. You don't "have" to fully remove the pan, but it's a good idea if you have guide pieces down in it to get them out.
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How to diagnose Toyota Timing Chain Rattle or Knock troubleshoot 22R 22RE 22RET